Patreon CEO Jack Conte on supporting artists in the AI slop era

Today, I’m talking with Jack Conte, the CEO of Patreon. Jack last joined me on the show almost exactly five years ago, in the summer of 2021, and a lot has changed on the internet and in the creator landscape since then, so I was very excited to talk to him again, especially since his ideas about what Patreon is and how it should work have changed dramatically as big social media platforms have gotten more closed off and more flooded by AI slop. In fact, you’ll hear Jack say that he now thinks of Patreon as an “index of small business media companies,” a major change in perspective that’s led him to make Patreon a more direct competitor to social platforms like Instagram and TikTok. Verge subscribers, don’t forget you get exclusive access to ad-free Decoder wherever you get your podcasts. Head here. Not a subscriber? You can sign up here. This is a huge change. In fact, the last time we talked, Jack was adamantly opposed to building any kind of discovery features into Patreon. But then Patreon built those features — to help people discover content from new creators. Jack’s reasoning for that change will be very familiar if you’ve been listening to our media conversations here on Decoder: Jack says if Patreon didn’t build its own audience platform, then everyone would be at the mercy of Meta and Google to find audiences — and customers. You’ll hear Jack say that the current way platforms treat creators is “disgusting,” and you’ll hear him convincingly argue that big tech companies are going to just keep taking everyone’s work however they want, and writers and musicians and artists of every kind will be left holding the bag. But you’ll also hear Jack argue that this leaves a really big opportunity for a company like Patreon, which connects creators directly with audiences. In a world full of cheap and easy slop, Patreon’s plan is to build demand from real people who want to connect in deep and important ways with real artists. There’s way more in this one — Jac